The Interview Room Archives

Classic Articles on Investigative Interviewing

The Interview Room Archive banner showing a two-way mirror view of an investigative interview room with table and case file as a female investigator observes, representing classic investigative interviewing articles by Stan B. Walters.

For many years Stan B. Walters published The Interview Room, an international electronic magazine read by investigators, law enforcement professionals, and interview specialists around the world.

The articles in this archive explore investigative interviewing, interrogation strategy, deception detection, and behavioral analysis—ideas that helped challenge outdated assumptions and shape modern thinking in the field.


Confession Motivators: Gain or Pain

Citation: Originally published in The Interview Room
January 2008 (Volume 7, Number 1) — by Stan B. Walters.

For each of us, the only reason we change our minds about a decision that we have already made is when someone or something convinces us to abandon our first decision and a new or different point of view. In our mind in some measurable one when see the new position we have taken is being more rewarding or satisfying than the old. We have made the change after we have been motivated by our perception of "gain" or "pain." The same evaluation process is being made in the mind of our interview or interrogation subject while we are persuading them to change their current position and begin to cooperated with us and comply with our requests for information or even confession. If you can understand the "gain" or "pain" motivation of your subject and demonstrate to your subject a big distinction between the two, you'll have a better chance at gaining compliance, cooperation and confession.

In the Gain vs. Gain scenario, you subject has already concluded that he has much more to gain by remaining consistent with the position he has already assumed. First you have two hurdles to overcome, your subject's commitment to staying consistent with his decision and second demonstrating to him or her the position you want them to choose will provide them even more to gain than they may realize. In this case you'll need to acknowledge that you subject does have some things to gain by sticking with their decision and point out that the new point of view may also have those very same rewards. That it itself however, is not enough to move your subject. You'll have emphasize the advantages your subject has overlooked or has undervalued in terms of their importance to him and his "gain" objective.

In the second scenario which is Pain vs. Pain, there is the possibility that your interviewee has seen no gain for them at all by accepting your conclusions and you'll have a long road of persuasion ahead of you. It that case you'll need to demonstrate to the subject that they have overlooked some pain issues with their point of view and to accept your proposition. Your recommended position may also afford the subject some "pain" but not nearly as much as what they had not anticipated if they decided to "stand" by his initial choice. In most cases, carefully listening to your subject and their reasons for rejecting your proposal, you'll hear the gain-pain issue or issues that is driving your subject's resistance. You'll need to focus on those issues because their are important to your subject but may not be that important to you.

The final scenario is usually the easiest to deal with and that's the Pain vs. Gain format. In this case, it is much easier to convince your subject to abandon their choice to resist your recommendations to solve the issue. They already see themselves has having to deal with some level of "pain" as a result of their behavior and all you have to do is show them the "light" and get them to look forward and see to "gains" they can make by reevaluating their current pain-filled situation. In many cases, just pointing out what may be obvious "gain" to you is all that is needed because your subject is "blinded" by their current state and has missed the benefits of changing they judgment about the possible outcomes of cooperation.

In any of the three scenarios above, the interviewer has to realize that their subject is motivated by "their" perception of Gain vs Pain. The evaluation by the subject as to what they define as gain or pain may not even be close to what you as the interviewer think is worth gaining or avoiding. Once the interviewer recognizes their subject's gain or pain motivation he can key in on those issues. The greater the distinction you can make between Gain - Gain, Gain - Pain, and Pain - Pain, the more likely and the more quickly you'll get the subject to come to the conclusion to abandon their current preferred decision and accept the interviewer's recommendation.

© 2008 Stan B. Walters / Third Degree Publishing. All rights reserved.
This article is part of The Interview Room Archive Series, preserving classic writings on investigative interviewing and interrogation strategy.

Many of the concepts introduced in these early articles continue to evolve today through Stan Walters’ work on the Cognitive Reliability Framework and evidence-based interview practices.

Casey Anthony:

A Masterful Investigation

Stan B. Walters

Regarding the Casey Anthony case, my hat’s off to the Orange County Sheriff’s Office, Lead Investigator Yuri Melich and the rest of the investigators on this case.  They have done a FANTASTIC job.  We’re going to see a great case brought against her because of their very professional and tireless dedication to this case.  (Watch the defense attack them by the way!!)

  1. They allowed Casey Anthony to “narrate” her version of the events surrounding the disappearance of her daughter.  This tactic is VERY successful and least likely to contaminate her statements.  They more she talks to more they have to prove she’s lying.
  2. They didn’t stop Casey Anthony when they caught her lying multiple times. 
  3. They let Casey lie more to cover up her previous lies.
  4. Casey Anthony has absolutely no credibility with anyone after her many outlandish, self-serving lies.  She has even damaged the credibility of her parents who have defended her repeatedly.
  5. I’d bet the farm that they have a TON of forensic evidence that has yet to be disclosed.
  6. I’d bet that Casey’s abundant use of her many cell phones will play a major role in this case.
  7. I’d also bet that the fact that Casey stopped using or disposed of one or more cell phones will be critical.
  8. Personally, I have little or NO respect for her attorney.  His job is to insure that Casey gets a fair trial.  It is NOT, I repeat NOT to “get her off.”  Many defense attorneys have forgotten this concept and would rather sacrifice justice for not only their clients but also the many many victims.

There are going to be more very damaging pieces of forensic evidence that will directly refute Casey Anthony’s comments AND maybe some of those made by her parents as they try to defend her.

You’ve got to know her parents and brother are hurting as they try to help their daughter and find out what happened to their granddaughter.  She crushed them and increase the pain they have and will suffer when this goes to trial.

A personal message to Casey Anthony’s attorney.  Counselor… put her on the witness stand.  I bet she could REALLY sway the jury!!

Just a few of the thoughts that come to mind while I’m flying around the world teaching.

Stan
“The Lie Guy®”
www.TheLieGuy.com
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