The Interview Room Archives

Classic Articles on Investigative Interviewing

The Interview Room Archive banner showing a two-way mirror view of an investigative interview room with table and case file as a female investigator observes, representing classic investigative interviewing articles by Stan B. Walters.

For many years Stan B. Walters published The Interview Room, an international electronic magazine read by investigators, law enforcement professionals, and interview specialists around the world.

The articles in this archive explore investigative interviewing, interrogation strategy, deception detection, and behavioral analysis—ideas that helped challenge outdated assumptions and shape modern thinking in the field.


Confession Motivators: Gain or Pain

Citation: Originally published in The Interview Room
January 2008 (Volume 7, Number 1) — by Stan B. Walters.

For each of us, the only reason we change our minds about a decision that we have already made is when someone or something convinces us to abandon our first decision and a new or different point of view. In our mind in some measurable one when see the new position we have taken is being more rewarding or satisfying than the old. We have made the change after we have been motivated by our perception of "gain" or "pain." The same evaluation process is being made in the mind of our interview or interrogation subject while we are persuading them to change their current position and begin to cooperated with us and comply with our requests for information or even confession. If you can understand the "gain" or "pain" motivation of your subject and demonstrate to your subject a big distinction between the two, you'll have a better chance at gaining compliance, cooperation and confession.

In the Gain vs. Gain scenario, you subject has already concluded that he has much more to gain by remaining consistent with the position he has already assumed. First you have two hurdles to overcome, your subject's commitment to staying consistent with his decision and second demonstrating to him or her the position you want them to choose will provide them even more to gain than they may realize. In this case you'll need to acknowledge that you subject does have some things to gain by sticking with their decision and point out that the new point of view may also have those very same rewards. That it itself however, is not enough to move your subject. You'll have emphasize the advantages your subject has overlooked or has undervalued in terms of their importance to him and his "gain" objective.

In the second scenario which is Pain vs. Pain, there is the possibility that your interviewee has seen no gain for them at all by accepting your conclusions and you'll have a long road of persuasion ahead of you. It that case you'll need to demonstrate to the subject that they have overlooked some pain issues with their point of view and to accept your proposition. Your recommended position may also afford the subject some "pain" but not nearly as much as what they had not anticipated if they decided to "stand" by his initial choice. In most cases, carefully listening to your subject and their reasons for rejecting your proposal, you'll hear the gain-pain issue or issues that is driving your subject's resistance. You'll need to focus on those issues because their are important to your subject but may not be that important to you.

The final scenario is usually the easiest to deal with and that's the Pain vs. Gain format. In this case, it is much easier to convince your subject to abandon their choice to resist your recommendations to solve the issue. They already see themselves has having to deal with some level of "pain" as a result of their behavior and all you have to do is show them the "light" and get them to look forward and see to "gains" they can make by reevaluating their current pain-filled situation. In many cases, just pointing out what may be obvious "gain" to you is all that is needed because your subject is "blinded" by their current state and has missed the benefits of changing they judgment about the possible outcomes of cooperation.

In any of the three scenarios above, the interviewer has to realize that their subject is motivated by "their" perception of Gain vs Pain. The evaluation by the subject as to what they define as gain or pain may not even be close to what you as the interviewer think is worth gaining or avoiding. Once the interviewer recognizes their subject's gain or pain motivation he can key in on those issues. The greater the distinction you can make between Gain - Gain, Gain - Pain, and Pain - Pain, the more likely and the more quickly you'll get the subject to come to the conclusion to abandon their current preferred decision and accept the interviewer's recommendation.

© 2008 Stan B. Walters / Third Degree Publishing. All rights reserved.
This article is part of The Interview Room Archive Series, preserving classic writings on investigative interviewing and interrogation strategy.

Many of the concepts introduced in these early articles continue to evolve today through Stan Walters’ work on the Cognitive Reliability Framework and evidence-based interview practices.

Lying

Liars are Fascinating

Stan B. Walters

Lying and Liars! I find liars, especially the bold, brazen, chronic liars simply amazing!  They really do live in what is almost a fantasy world oblivious to their own lies. They are in total denial that their lies could possibly come back to haunt them.

I’ve been tracking and studying deception, lying, and liars for more than 30 years.  So it’s is an understatement for me to say that I find the topic interesting.

I am currently working for a client on a $30,000 fraud case.  I RARELY work such cases anymore but I’m trying to help someone out.  Let me share with you what this 47 year old fool has done.

(Talk about classic anti-social behaviors!)

He has conned people for years with shell companies, corporations, where he asks them to go into business with him and them cheats the hell out of them.

He constantly passes bad checks to all types of contractors.  When he is confronted with the bad checks, he gets them to agree to “payments”, makes a token payment and defaults on paying the rest of the money thereby bypassing criminal charges.  He is always threatening to sue people.

He and his wife are in business, but he has been having an affair on the side with another woman he is also in business with (Okay.. I know that stuff happens, but just follow me on this)  He has been defrauding BOTH businesses!  In the last four weeks he has left his wife for the other woman.

He has been violating state building and construction codes by working of other peoples’ licenses (with whom he has assumed partnerships – see above!)

State inspectors despise him, but they have not been able to catch him in the act.  They are literally gunning for this guy.

Construction supply houses are constantly having to deal with his bad checks.  Again he wiggles out by making partial payments and thereby eluding prosecution.

He is into my client for about $30,000.  $12,000 plus in bad checks and more that $16,000 plus for work he has not paid for as a home builder.

I was able to get the all the checks to county attorneys and send him 7 notices to pay or face felony theft by deception charges.  My client has filed $16,000 plus in mechanics liens on all the houses he has worked on.

NOW it gets good!  He sent invoices to my client indicating my client owes HIM for the work my client did on the houses.  Huh!!  I do the work for you and then you bill me for the work I did for you!

In the last 16 days he has sent 75 plus harassing text messages to my client.  Threatened to show up on job sites, threatened to just show up at his house (with my client’s wife and 10 year old son home alone.)  That doesn’t count all the voice messages he has left.  Oh and he is going to file MILLIONS of dollars in law suits (Nothing has been fled because he ain’t got no damn money!)

Ready for this?!  He went to two different county attorneys and LIED to them about the case.  He told them that he and my client were brothers and that they should just drop the case because it is a family matter, and their are in business together. (My client is NOT on the articles of incorporation for this guy’s company AND he is NOT a signer on the bank account which the checks are drawn on. He is NOT related to the suspect in anyway.)

Today he sends an email to my client and wants to sit down and work this out because he knows my client “really doesn’t want to hurt” him. His claim is that my client just needs to come to him so they can work things out.

You gotta hand it to chronic, anti-social liars.  They leave a path of destroyed victims along the way.  Boy is he gonna be surprised on Friday when he is arrested for at least 7 counts of felony fraud.  The state inspectors are also working up a case against him, too.

So lying and liars! As long as there is lying and liars, my job security looks good!  Folks may run out of money but we won’t run short on cases of liars destroying people.

Stan B. Walters, CSP
The Lie Guy®
TheLieGuy.com
TheLieGuyAcademy.com